Users don't like forum platform

What version of CS are you using? CS 2.0, 2.1, 2007?

The source is open so nothing, including font sizes, is fixed.  You customization options are different depending on what version you have, but all can be customized.

Could you be a bit more specific of what you mean by 'too many clicks' and too clunky.  If by clunky, they mean they don't like the design, have a look at http://themes.communityserver.org/files/- specifically those in the Track II if your users don't like the layout.  As to the number of clicks, on thing I noticed is that your 'online forums' links to the CS homepage where users will then have to click on the Forums link to get to the forums home page - that might possibly be what your users are refering to by too many clicks.  As for the size of the message text font - whey you say it apparently can't be changed, do you mean it doesn't respect the users browser's text size settings (i.e. is the same size with Small and large text sizes selected).

BTW, you're running CS2007.

It's difficult to nail down specifics but I do agree with the gist of your post.  Whenever we upgraded from our Snitz forums to CS the vocal majority have stated their dislike for the "new" forums.   I've done 8 community sites (1 is actually 6 sites using the same community area) and it's been the same.  Personally, I consider myself a forum junkie cause I spend a lot of my free time on a lot of gaming related forums.  I can't help but compare my experiences there with our Community Server sites and I find myself disappointed.

My opinion as to why the forums aren't that great in Community Server is that I feel that the Community Server team just doesn't use them like the rest of us. 

For one, some of them don't use the web interface and use the subscription service or newsreaders.  So for those people they don't deal with all the UI issues that the rest of us do.  It's apparent when you see posts posted / quoted via email.  Also when posting about a bug sometimes they have no idea as to what the issue is because again, they don't use the web interface.  It's not until a screenshot is posted that they have an idea.

Second, many of them use the Blog and Gallery for their personal sites so they have a lot invested in those aspects of Community Server.  So you'll see those areas get a lot of attention and discussion.  There is always a lot of neat things posted as to all the different things you can do with your blog.  Not that that is a bad thing as Blogs are popular but a tad frustrating when the main reason your using Community Server is the forums.

Third, I have to wonder aside from the Community Server forums, how many on the team actually have experience with managing / running forums with a medium to large size and active membership.  Actually, I should rephrase that... forums which don't cater to the technical saavy by which I rule out the asp.net forums as well.  It's a very different animal when dealing with a community where it's members aren't programmers, web designers, or working in the IT field. 

Then there are things like the not showing the post author, views, a last post column, jump to first unread post, no quick reply in the footer (people just don't get the quick reply modal feature and why you have to reply to a post vs. the thread) to name a few things that always come up.  These are features people want but yet for whatever reason they're not there.  Granted you can make modifications to add some of it in but these are basics that I feel should be in from the start. 

I apologize for the wall of text and not summarizing w/ a powerpoint presentation with nifty bullet points.  It's just that I really like the software but I get so frustrated at times because I know it should be so much better than what it is.  By that I mean it's amazing on the technical / engineering aspect, the administration aspect of it is better than what I've seen in other packages, but the public interface is where it's lacking and unfortunately that's what all of our members / customers see when they visit our site.

Have to agree with the points David is making in the post above. We too migrated over from a Snitz based forum and found ourselves swamped with users crying out for functionality which simply wasnt offered by CS. Although I'm referring to CS 1.1 here and there have since been geat leaps forward in the platform, I do feel the forum component as a whole has been really left alone, with a lot of development going into other aspects of the system. We're not all bloggers at the end of the day and forums make up a huge part of the internet.

One notion I've always thought, and again this has been touched on by David already, is that this forum platform was written by developers for developers. Although that point may come across in two different ways, I'm making more of the point toward lack of out of box functionality, and overall direction, for average joe users.

I can see why things have to different, afterall CS is a unique product in my eyes and to be simply a copy of other, individual, platforms just woulnd't cut it. But I do feel like there are a many features forums in CS really, really require.

Maybe a group of large forum owners need to grab the bull by horns here, and commission a set of changes for our own collective good. I've already got a wish list of forum features which I'd love to see implemented and I'm certain these would be welcomed by others. If we all collaborate I think there is an ideal opportunity to get the features we need for the forums.

Tabs

I've already got a wish list of forum features which I'd love to see implemented and I'm certain these would be welcomed by others.

Post your list so we can see what kind of features you mean.

I'll start another topic as I don't wish to take the OP's topic of course  

 And the OP will look forward to seeing where the discussion goes wherever you place it. It's been helpful reading everyone's comments. We definitely would be a market for enhancements to the forum platform. 

 Marshall

 I'm very interested to see where this discussion goes.  For the past while I've been trying to fashion the forums in a CS 2.1 installation into something I'd consider more usable as my suspicion is that only developers, and .NET developers at that, would put up with the forums in their default state.  I've managed to implement something that is quite a lot like the PHP Vanilla forum software, but it's taken quite a lot of hackery. What my guiding principle has been, though, is to simplify and remove wherever possible.  I think the forums are far too configurable by forum users and not configurable enough by forum administrators.  CS needs to cater with a range of forum tastes and expectations, but it should allow administrators to remove everything but very basic and essential functionality.  (And, conversely, there should be more of an official framework for mods and additions.)  A useful addition would also be not just themes but pre-packaged sets of functionality - in the same way as there are presets on a CD player (rock, jazz, classical etc) that correspond to a set of equaliser settings, there should be sensible presets for different uses of the forums - developers, gaming, "Average Joe", etc etc.

The other thread has, I suppose, taken over this discussion somewhat, so I'll just voice my approval of Tabs' suggestion for a true quick reply.  Modal dialogs and replying to individual posts rather than replying to threads just confuse 90% of users (they confuse me and I'm a developer).  The other benefit of a reply box at the bottom of a thread is that you can see the whole previous thread while you are writing a reply, and aren't forced to quote different people from memory/ load the thread in another tab.

 Hi Dave,

Thanks for the feedback.

First, just to be clear, we do want the forums to be the best they can be. But our #1 goal with Community Server is to enable our users to build a great community. There are plenty of other forums, blogging,etc systems out there. While I am sure we could compete with them all feature by feature if we chose to, I do not believe that would result in something that would help us achive our core goal or make our customers more successful. 

Your third point is the one I having trouble understanding. The reason for remvoing things like the views columns is to help simplify the UI and remove things which only techies generally worry about. What other parts of the forums do you think or too geak focused (note: the more specific, the better)? 

In CS 2008 we have been really focused on streaming lining a lot of the flow and have been focusing on ways in which you can really connect with other users in a community (Groups, Messages, and Media Gallery).  I really believe this will be a huge leap forward for the product.

Thanks,
Scott

P.S. Anyone who wants to contact me directly about forums (missing features, complexity, etc) feel free to drop me a line at scottw@telligent.com.  

Hi shieldo,  

One of the biggest reasons for a modal on quick replies is the WYSIWYG editor's alwasy seem to cause the page to load slower than we would like.

We are using FCK editor (we actually licensed the code) in Graffiti and will likely have an editor available in CS as well. So far its load times have been great. If this holds up, we might be able to move the quick reply feature more "inline" or at least help you add it to your sites.  

-Scott 

David makes some good points.  I run an active forum (700 posts/day) for a subject that is non-technical, but most users are active on other forums as well, so they are forum-savvy.  I do extensive customization just to try to keep up with competing forums (e.g. vBulletin).  A small example, as Marshall mentioned, showing the original post author.  A larger example, PM notification.  (Note about view count: this is not just interesting to techies, it is useful to posters.   How many people have seen my post?  Why 57 views it but only 2 replies? If I come out of lurkdom to post here, how many eyeballs will see what I post?  Hmm, lots of views here, maybe I should buy some ads...)   

I'm really grateful that cs has provided a platform that allowed me to build a thriving community that's become famous for being addicting.  But the need for so much customization just to keep up with other forums out of the box is a burden, to the point I dread a new release.  I would love to see a version of cs primarily to address performance, stability, and usability, that would make a better experience for every user; rather than adding more exotic features.  

Scott Watermasysk

What other parts of the forums do you think or too geak focused (note: the more specific, the better)?

Since you ask, I have a big list that, even though I may like these things, aren't working for my users as well as I had hoped:

• Tag Clouds
  They are everywhere and I think most people just tolerate them.  I'm getting rid of them on my site as I'm tired of answering, "Why are all the fonts screwed up?"
• Favorites
  I know the plan is to expand on this for 2008, but you need to really work on giving people a reason to use this and the profile stuff.  When I explain this feature to my users I get the blankest "who cares" looks imaginable. I'm considering pulling this feature out as well.
• Ratings
  These only work if users understand that THEY are the ones who should be doing the rating.  Most of my users think some kind of community "overlord" is in charge of rating things.
• Points
  I actually got a nasty-gram from a user who was extremely pissed that we only gave them 5 points for their post.  They felt that their post was worth so much more and that they would no longer be contributing if we couldn't find a fair way to give people points.  True story.  I like the idea of points and identifying contibuting users, but it's not intuitive for non-tech users.  It would be interesting if the original poster could be prompted to allocate points.
• Resolved/Answered Posts
  I can't get my users to buy into this.  I've messed with the wording, the placement, etc., and it just doesn't seem to catch on.  I wish it would, and I'm afraid I don't have any good suggestions at this time.
• Tagging
  Some of my users get it or try it.  I still get a lot of users tagging their posts with their own name.  The default setup tends to assume that people understand tagging so little is done to encourage or explain how to use them.  A tooltip would be nice.
• Profile Settings
  Much of the profile editor seems geared towards tech users. A lot of my users don't understand how to make changes because they don't understand the terminology (avatar, content editor, display name, etc.).  I know these can be changed, since you asked...
• Quick Reply
  Even if my users understood this, it's not that much quicker as it still loads the WYSIWYG editor.  I think the Quick Reply should always be a plain textbox (and located conveniently at the end of the page ).

That's just a few of my biggies.  An out-of-the box theme for forum newbies would be nice.  Some kind of theme that slowly introduces more advanced features the more the user is active would be even cooler.

Aside from a lot of the things already listed, the thing I would most like is a BBCode only editor as an option. WYSIWYG is cool and all but personally I would much rather than a quick loading BBCode only editor like most any PHP based forum uses. Plain text works for people like me with HTML knowledge, but an editor like the one most vBulletin installs use would be preferable.

Coming from gaming background where forums are the means of interaction of the community, it is what my users would be most familiar with. WYSIWYG is just too foreign to them and for the most part too slow as well.

If page load time is still a problem, is it possible to load the editor through a DelayedContent Control?  To most people it wouldn't matter if the editor took an extra 30 seconds to load after the rest of the page has loaded (to take an extreme example) because they will likely spend most or some of that time reading posts.